We get tons of emails...for me personally...its mostly hate mail. But from time to time we get some good tips. Whether it be a neighbor of a player...family member ..ect. Here is one we recently received....(Disclaimer...its not from PFT...but from a reader). Is this guy onto something...or just a complete nut job?
You guys seem pretty ballsy - tell me what you think of this: >> >> I have been aware of certain players cheating in the NFL via HGH and >> whatever the steroid du jour is. I don't have pictures or fingerprints >> on >> a syringe or anything; I can just "see" things in certain players. >> >> Let me expand on that: >> >> Look at Peyton Manning; compare his ball velocity from his rookie year >> to >> his 2nd and 3rd. I have most game tapes of the Colts from 1989 to now >> and >> I clearly remember Manning's limitations his rookie year. >> >> His arm strength was sub-par for a 1st round draft pick. Equivalent to >> a >> Rodney Peete. If a downfield play took too long to develop he would >> hang >> the ball up. If they played in windy weather he was totally ineffective >> (like in Buffalo). He also threw "flutterballs" quite often; which is a >> symptom of trying to overthrow the football. >> >> If you look at Manning in his record setting 2004 year, he basically had >> a >> Troy Aikman level arm. Below that of a Randall Cunningham or Jeff >> George. >> He does not even have to set his feet anymore to throw bullets >> downfield. >> He throws outs to the other side of the field from a roll out. >> >> I have been a ardent Colts fan since 1984, and I am a Peyton Manning >> fan. >> But I am 100% certain that his arm strength has increased an unnatural >> amount after he entered the league. No one was paying attention to the >> Colts in 1998 during his rookie year - so the national media has no >> memory >> of this. >> >> I can tell you one piece of indirect evidence: If Manning had the arm >> he >> has today before he was drafted, there would have been no comparison >> between him and Ryan Leaf. Manning now has equivalent arm strength to >> what Leaf had before he messed up his hand. >> >> I think that Manning saw his limitations after his rookie year and knew >> that he could not execute physically as well as what his eyes and brain >> were telling him to do on the field. So I think he went for "something >> extra". Just the jump in arm strength in his second season is striking. >> >> Before 10 years ago I don't think there was a single example of a NFL QB >> increasing his arm strength after College. If working out was the >> answer >> then everyone would be doing it. QB's work out to build a layer of >> muscle >> to protect themselves from injury. >> >> If you have access to some tapes; check it out for yourself. If you >> need >> some, I may be able to dig in my "archives" and find some. >> >> P.S. Manning's arm strength looks to me to be slightly diminished last >> season. Maybe whatever undetectable substance he has switched to is not >> as effective as those that there are tests for now. >> >> When Ricky Williams retired, I guarantee it is due to Human Growth >> Hormone >> and steroids (THG). The "Mary Jane" thing was just a bull**** >> "smoke-screen". The league is not allowed to release that info. >> >> In his first three seasons with New Orleans, Williams had *nine* 20+ >> yard >> runs. In his first *two* season with Miami he had *thirteen*. The the >> test for EPO came out and he was suspended and mysteriously lost 50 Lbs >> while remaining in good shape. >> >> >> After not having true break away speed his whole time in New Orleans he >> sudden was breaking all these runs for long distance after coming to the >> Dolphins. Before all this I mentioned to others that I suspected he was >> one of the guys in the NFL doing this. >> >> He "retires" and then comes back 40 pounds or whatever lighter? Do you >> think he was dieting while he was getting into his chronic? >> >> >> Others I suspect: >> >> Tom Brady - talent evaluation mistake my ass; if his arm was as strong >> as >> it is now he would have been a 1st round pick. He is another one that >> no >> longer has to set his feet before throwing the ball 30 yards on a line >> over the middle. >> >> Ed McCaffery - This guy was a possession receiver in *college*! Most >> NFL >> possession receivers in the NFL were deep threats in college. >> >> Check his stats: >> http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1219 >> >> In his first *seven* years in the league he had *one* count 'em and >> single >> solitary 40+ yard catch with the Giants, Rams, and a year with the >> Broncos. In the next three years after meeting up with Dr. Pill >> (Romanowski) he had *13* - yes, THIRTEEN 40+ yard catches. And no one >> noticed this? You can't say it was the system; he had his normal >> pedestrian stats his first year in Denver. I remember him running away >> from people on a couple of those long catches. >> >> Ray Lewis - Was a very good athlete coming out of college - turned into >> a >> total Barry Bonds-like monster after a couple of years in the league. >> Mysteriously "lost a step" after there was a test for EPO. Started >> getting hurt - again like Bonds. >> >> Jason Sehorn - this guy never looked right to me; he ended up putting >> too >> much stress on his joints and started his string of leg injuries. >> >> Jim Miller - was actually suspended for steroids, his arm strength >> increased a lot after leaving college. He started the 1996 season as >> the >> STARTER for Pittsburgh and was cut after the 2nd game! Did the team >> know >> something? Look at his 2001 season with the Bears; that is the year he >> was suspended. After that year he started getting hurt. >> >> Brandon Stokley - Another Raven that got faster after having leg >> injuries. >> >> David Boston - Is there really any doubt? His performance fell off the >> table after the test for EPO came out and then he started getting hurt. >> >> Terrell Owens - He is faster than he was coming out of college; and he >> is >> ripped of course. >> >> Shannon Sharpe - I think he was on something for most of his career, but >> then he went to Baltimore he got ahold of whatever Jamal Lewis, Priest >> Holmes, and Ray Lewis were using. He was supposed to be done when he >> went >> there; instead he was reborn. Look at his last year with Denver - he >> had >> his best season in years with *eleven* 20+ yard catches! Then he >> abruptly >> retires after there is a test for EPO. >> >> Bert Berry - I watched this guy in Indianapolis go through 4 uninspired >> seasons. During this time the Colts had a terrible defense - so it is >> not >> like he could not beat out a future hall of famer. He was a LB in >> college >> and it was a failed experiment to move him to DE. Mysteriously he tuned >> into a pass-rushing demon after arriving on the same team as "Dr. Pill". >> How did he do after the test for EPO came out? He got hurt. >> >> Priest Holmes - Great example of someone getting faster *after* a major >> knee injury. He had *ten* 20+ yard runs in his first fours years on 459 >> rushing attempts. In his next season (after suffering some leg >> injuries) >> in Kansas City he had *eleven* 20+ yard runs in 327 attempts. How did >> he >> do after the test for EPO came out? He got hurt and has stayed hurt. >> >> Jamal Lewis - In his excellent rookie year (2000) he had *eight* 20+ >> yard >> runs. In 2001 he blows out his knee. In 2002 he comes back (bear in >> mind >> it is supposed to take two full years to come back from a major knee >> injury) and has *Ten* 20+ yard runs. The next year he has sixteen. >> >> How did he do after the test for EPO came out? He had *eight* 20+ yard >> runs in TWO seasons and was always hurt. >> >> Mark Schlereth - this guy dropped like 50 lbs after retiring and is >> still >> cut. Isn't that a little strange? >> >> Bill Romanowski - This guy was still getting faster before he retired; >> any >> doubt he was suffering from 'roid rage? They should have tested that >> spit. >> >> Jimmy Smith - Reconcile his excellent speed and performance at an >> advanced >> age with his sudden and unexplained "retirement" this off-season. >> >> Shaun Alexander - he looks faster than he was in college. Check this >> link >> from 2000: http://tinyurl.com/hm3ah >> "He is much more quick than fast and gets caught from behind at times." >> >> This is in COLLEGE - if you are getting run down from behind in college; >> I'm pretty sure you are not going to be a speedster in the NFL. Do you >> remember Alexander being run down from behind in the last two years? >> >> You want an example of someone who is a good example of someone who is >> NOT >> cheating? Consider Edgerrin James. James had eighteen 20+ yard runs in >> his first two years. The he had his knee blowout in his third year. He >> came back the next year and was obviously running on one leg. Since >> then >> he has not had more than six 20+ yard runs in any season. >> >> Some facts about James: >> >> 1. He is widely considered to be a VERY hard worker. >> >> 2. He is a fast healer. >> >> 3. He has never recovered his speed since his injury. He went from >> having 4.5 speed to probably 4.8 now. He gets his yards through guile >> and >> his excellent vision. >> >> He is also the kind of high character guy who would never stick a needle >> in his ass to get ahead. He simply does not need to play that badly. >> >> >> All of these players have increased their overall athleticism since they >> were drafted. 80 years of history in the NFL says that does not happen. >> >> Many of these players have had leg injuries that may have been caused by >> abnormal stresses put on them. Some of these guys started cheating >> AFTER >> they were injured as a way of catching back up. >> >> As soon as there was a test for that new steroid that Barry Bonds and >> half >> of the Olympics were taking; these guys started retiring: Ricky >> Williams, >> Shannon Sharp, Bill Romanowski, etc. >> >> Mostly I suspect these players because either they "look wrong" or I >> distinctly remember them being slower in past years. "Looking wrong" >> means that seem to be able to move faster than their legs can carry >> them. >> >> Notice the teams involved. Denver and Baltimore make up the majority of >> these players. >> >> Please check this stuff with some of your player-personnel guys. >> >> Ask them these questions: >> >> 1. Can a QB significantly increase his arm strength after he has >> physically matured? Assuming he did the normal working out expected of >> the position. Name some examples. >> >> 2. Can a player become faster after he has physically matured? >> Assuming >> he was not completely out of shape. Name some examples. >> >> >> Well, there is my spiel. There is a lot more, but damn - I do have a >> life
Very interesting Taco. I think one major guy who I've believed was on steroids for a long time that he didn't mention was Ahman Green. When he game to Green Bay to replace Levens...he was a change-of-pace speedy back.
Then he became this ripped up power guy who a couple years ago had no problem running over urlacher. Also....he was a good locker room guy...yet would rage on his wife and beat her (clearly roid rage).
Also, has PFT ran anything on the Panthers trainer that just got arrested for distributing roids? why has Florio shyed away from that story? or is there just no carolina source?
also just my opinion...i dont think Peyton has juiced. As a big SEC fan, i can say he's always had a big arm. And really, there was never that much consideration of Leaf over Manning.
I just hope everyone looks into the Ray Lewis accusations more than anyone else. In 2000 the man was a beast among men; unstoppable sideline-to-sideline tackler who was ripped with muscle and ran like a WR. The next season he slims down so he can run faster. Ray Lewis didn't need to run faster; what made him so dominant that season was the fact that he was to damn big and powerful he couldn't be blocked, and now he wants to lose weight?? There is no doubt in my mind that Lewis was roid-heavy and his play has declined ever since. His 2000 season should have an * next to it, no different than Barry Bones.
As a Steelers fan, I have a candidate. Kendrell Bell. I loved Bell, and his rookie season he was dominant. He looked like an even more ripped up Ray Lewis; muscles bulging out of his uniform, blasting o-lineman 5 yards back onto their a$$, chasing down the best RB's sideline-to-sideline. Then he fell into an injury-ridden, underperforming career. I like Kendrell, but I think he was roided up big-time.
Eddie George, ran like a top, never injured and played like a machine, until about the time...
Jevon Kearse. God, I hope not. But he has never really recaptured that rookie season, now has he? Again, about the time..
But if you think about it, it makes sense that these guys would take advantage of whatever they can to improve their abilities, if they knew others were and they still had to play against them.
I just hope it doesn't blow up like baseball's scandal did. Football is still going to be the best of America's pasttimes, but something like this could dampen enthusaism for new stadiums, etc.
Taco, can you get that guy's IP address and send 'Vick' The Russian to see him??
i donno how much we can really blame alot of this on steroids. players who are great and then burn out doesn't seem like it would be an uncommon theme in professional sports. also, the degree of working out that guys had in college may have been much less than the degree that they had in the pros, where there was alot more money to put into trainers and alot more time to do it. It's not hard for me to see tom brady coming into the nfl out of michigan in only so-so shape and then really getting into nfl shape and this helping him. these guys are in their early 20s when this stuff happens, and that's an age where you can still add major muscle mass. seems like every year there's dozens of top picks in the draft whose draft grades say they need to add bulk to their frame, and they often do. Are we going to say that every one of them is juicing? Sure, there's going to be some of it there, but it's way too easy to see that a guy has improved in his first few years and maybe then fell off later and accuse him.
what we need to look for are guys who are extending their careers or improving strangely midway through their careers. like a running back who was a backup for 4 years and then at age 27 suddenly is running for 1400 yards. That sort of thing shouldn't be happening, and for the most part we don't see it except in cases like lamont jordan where everyone knew that jordan was just waiting to explode of he could handle the workload.
User Name wrote: pas·time ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pstm)n. An activity that occupies one's spare time pleasantly: Sailing is her favorite pastime. Are you our new English teacher? If not, try to be less self-righteous in the future.... it is very unbecoming.
It's a REALLY interesting post. It prompted me to sign up (well, that and the fact that the Rumormill page is loading a blank screen for some reason...).
The Peyton and Brady suggestions are intriguiging, especially because of their lillywhite reputations.
And I think he's also right about the Edge: no 'roids there. That guy just figured out a way to stay in the leauge and play at a high level. What a horse.
I TOTALLY agree with the Ray Lewis suggestion. It's amazing how that guy went from a murder trial to parlaying his rage into a career as a living, breathing cartoon character...a poster boy for anger. I thought he was 'roided up the whole time. But since anger was such a part of his media persona, nobody seemed to question it.
Another suggestion: I'm a Birds fan, and I've seen Jeremiah Trotter go, and come back. His size has changed quite a bit. This is a guy who had a nice early to middle career in Philly, and was pretty much finished by the time he was done in Washington. Then he came back to Philly bulked up and faster (and with much more rage).
btw, I AM an English teacher (at an art college, where many students think they shouldn't have to write). You'll never catch me addressing grammar / spelling errors on this site again (I'm not here to teach, I'm here to have fun). But some of the writing on these sites is apallingly bad. I wouldn't give my FRESHMEN passing grades for some of the writing on here. It's depressing.
btw, I AM an English teacher (at an art college, where many students think they shouldn't have to write). You'll never catch me addressing grammar / spelling errors on this site again (I'm not here to teach, I'm here to have fun). But some of the writing on these sites is apallingly bad. I wouldn't give my FRESHMEN passing grades for some of the writing on here. It's depressing. art
People on forums tend to post VERY quickly then get back to whatever it was they were SUPPOSED to be doing. Very few re-read the post before submitting it. Fewer still spell check.
That is the nature of the beast. An internet forum will naver be mistaken for fine literature, nor should it be.
That certainly is an interesting post, however, I think that you need to be careful in jumping to conclusions...There are those athletes out there that are just physically gifted more than others (Jevon Kearse, Vernon Davis, Michael Vick), as far as the QB's you mentioned arm strength, which certainly can increase when a person is still developing in their early twenties...You cant accuse an athlete of taking enhancing drugs simply because their productivity increased rapidly or unexpectedly, or decreased rapidly or unexpectedly...I personally believe that facts need to be presented in order to make accusation of juicing
Burgh1979 wrote: ...I personally believe that facts need to be presented in order to make accusation of juicing .
facts shmacts! let's git 'em!
just kiddin'. you're right, Burgh '79. it IS intriguing, however. the more i think about trotter, the more i think he's juiced. this is a guy who wasn't even asked to suit up for most of his rookie year. he was also criticized for not having a high motor. now he's all mouth, all the time. but who knows, really?
hey ninja, thanks for the clarification regarding grammar on these lists. i had NO IDEA this wasn't a literary forum! i'll "naver", "NAVER" make that mistake again. phew. btw, your 3-4 d. comments rocked it (no sarcasm) i'm hoppin' over to that thread now....