phole wrote: all lbs lambert, nitschke, butkus, blair, singletary, lewis, LT, mecklinburgh, seau....the list could go on. but whose THEBEST?
Butkus. Hands down. The meanest, nastiest, strongest, toughest there ever was. He would f with opponents both physically and mentally. Props to Lambert, Nitschke, Singletary, Taylor and Lewis...but Butkus represents "LINEBACKER". All these guys
He may actually be the best PLAYER ever regardless of position.
butkus was great, but LT revolutionized linebacking. He was scary. Dick butkus would beat your ass down, LT would murder you. not to mention the way LT played changed everything. He was a crack head besides. To do what he did addicted to **** all that time. pretty impressive
Yeah I dunno about that assessment. Butkus was by far a nastier player than LT because of the time period they played in. There was very little in the way of rules for protecting anyone back then. Violent play was not only tolerated but encouraged.
Both had about the same amount of impact on their team/ league, so this one is tough.
Butkus was also much more versatile than LT. He could drop back in coverage, he was damn near impossible for rb's and wr's to escape in the flat, and he was the on field coach of his d.
LT was a monster, no doubt, but i think Butkus was a more complete player.
and as far as their nastiness is concerned, i'd call it a draw.
Pink Taco Stadium wrote: butkus was great, but LT revolutionized linebacking. He was scary. Dick butkus would beat your ass down, LT would murder you. not to mention the way LT played changed everything. He was a crack head besides. To do what he did addicted to **** all that time. pretty impressive
Taco,
I think you need to watch a little more footage of Butkus. He was scarier and meaner than LT. LT slammed unsuspecting people to the ground viciously. Butkus tried to rip their heads off and main them. But I also think it may be a generational thing. No doubt LT was a prime LB for the 80's, early 90's. But Singletary could give him a run for his money...but a very different player.
The game was played diferently when Butkis played. most teams ran the ball and looked to the pass as a last resort. the game evolved into a pass happy league when lawrence Taylor came around.
It isn't to say that butkis wouldn't have been great either way, but I don't think that Taylor would have been as good in the old days. He was best out of a 4 linebacker set, where he could creat problems. he did most of his damage blitzing the QB's.
I would have been happy with butkis as my middle line backer and have LT on the outside.
I guess I can say I'm old enough to have been able to watch Butkis Play. He was a monster. But the BEars did take him out on pass plays toward the end, as his knees were giving out and he no longer had the mobility to cover the back out in patterns.
Nitschke head and shoulders is the best. Lets go back to the 1965 NFL Championship....Packers v. Browns. Jim Brown is starting at RB for the Browns...some say the greatest RB of all time.....Nitschke has one job, HIT BROWN.......that was Jim Brown's last game.
Ray Nitschke, didn't have a nickname didn't need one.
Nitschke head and shoulders is the best. Lets go back to the 1965 NFL Championship....Packers v. Browns. Jim Brown is starting at RB for the Browns...some say the greatest RB of all time.....Nitschke has one job, HIT BROWN.......that was Jim Brown's last game.
Ray Nitschke, didn't have a nickname didn't need one.
It was Brown's last game not because of Ray...because Jim wanted to go to Hollywood and make bank. let's not give him credit for ending Brown's career...
That Butkus became a legend despite playing for some of the worst Bears teams in history makes me lean to his side. it has been said to a degree but most clearly it is stated this way: Butkus and LT played completely different positions and games in their eras. Butkus eptiomized what a "linebacker" is but LT created a position that did not exist before him and only the late Derrick Thomas came anywhere near being compared favorably for doing the same thing. Again, I give the nod to Butkus because he was great despite his team and LT was the greatest piece of an already great team.
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Lesson learned from the Bengals & Clippers: It can always get worse, but it will get better.
Gotta weigh in on this one boys...It has been fun watching all the above mentioned guys, and Nitschke was a mean S.O.B., great run-stuffer but without a doubt....it was Butkus. Butkus changed the way MLBs would play for the next 40 years, when complimenting any new young LB, he's a young Butkus is the best compliment they can make, and so far the title of "The New Dick Butkus"...has yet to be filled.
Go back and watch any tapes in the first 6 or 7 years before the knees went...very fast and extremely agile, I have recently had the pleasure of watching some tape of him, and the one thing that struck me is that no-one went forward after he hit them, they didn't fall forward, stretch out or nothing...he hit them and ripped them to the ground, as Deacon Jones said " The man was merciless, best thing you could do is just stay away from him"...It was like watching a man among boys. Even when the knees went, all they could do with him was run away from him, because going near him was a mistake.
Now you all can go ahead and argue over who the best outside LBs are, but Butkus was THE MAN in the middle
Pink Taco Stadium wrote: butkus was great, but LT revolutionized linebacking. He was scary. Dick butkus would beat your ass down, LT would murder you. not to mention the way LT played changed everything. He was a crack head besides. To do what he did addicted to **** all that time. pretty impressive
Taco,
I think you need to watch a little more footage of Butkus. He was scarier and meaner than LT. LT slammed unsuspecting people to the ground viciously. Butkus tried to rip their heads off and main them. But I also think it may be a generational thing. No doubt LT was a prime LB for the 80's, early 90's. But Singletary could give him a run for his money...but a very different player.
Maybe your right, I am a little biased towards the late 80's early ninties players... butkus was great, and scary, but come on, LT was a crackhead who wasnt allowed to rip peoples heads off. He was a crack addict, thats gotta count, but i guess potential to be great isnt the same as being great, otherwise lawrence phillips would be leading the NFL in rushing.
LT was a great 3-4 outside LB...great pass rush...was average against the run (maybe cuz of the crack, focused too much on getting the QB) I saw plenty of LT, it was the same time period as the Bears were heating up....how did the Bears handle LT...easy...they ran right at him....NO-ONE EVER ran right at Butkus....to do so was to lose.
